tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post8068187419119051121..comments2023-10-28T13:24:04.911+03:00Comments on in the land of milk and honey: After Gaza: On Violence and Self DefenceCalevhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06845000281247083994noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-91333552547533294592009-03-21T19:14:00.000+02:002009-03-21T19:14:00.000+02:00Calev,Dont over think it my friend.Its quite simpl...Calev,<BR/><BR/>Dont over think it my friend.<BR/><BR/>Its quite simple. Someone is trying to kill you, you kill him first.Full stop.<BR/><BR/>If you stop to think, you wind up dead. Thats how it is in the field.<BR/><BR/>We can think about it before the event, we can even think about it afterwards, as you are doing now, but that does not change what needs to be done.<BR/><BR/>There is a time for peace, and a time for war. This is the nature of all things. Light, dark. Day, night. Male, female. <BR/><BR/>And so it goes on. We need to come to terms with that as human beings. <BR/><BR/>It makes horrible decisions easier to make.<BR/><BR/>And it may also save your life and the lives of your friends if you end up doing your military service.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-20985369499262536562009-01-29T16:58:00.000+02:002009-01-29T16:58:00.000+02:00As Nietche once said: "if you gaze for long into a...As Nietche once said: "if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. " <BR/><BR/>In a country in which most of the population knows how to use automatic weapons you would expect a higher crime rate...if you compare Israel to the UK, the crime rate/violence in the UK is on a different scale compared to Israel - we are doing pretty well keeping our sanity in this violent region. British society is by far more violent than Israeli society...the first time I saw people fighting in the street was in the UK. <BR/><BR/>Israel's main concern should always be it's children. The international community will act according to each and every state's interest/trend. The nations of the world will condemn Israel in any case...One thing I learnt about many Europeans is that they do not care for the facts/truth - they care about hating Israel and their mind is set regardelss of Israel's actions.<BR/><BR/>MichaelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-72527189645196103602009-01-29T13:05:00.000+02:002009-01-29T13:05:00.000+02:00I agree with the Moshe bit - the torah mentions th...I agree with the Moshe bit - the torah mentions that also with Jacob's 'blessing' to Simeon/Levi, where he curses their anger/actions (and not them, as their intention was good - and hence, only they are referred to as 'Dinah's brothers'). <BR/><BR/>But I think it has been mentioned over discussions with Gaza. Most of us are struggling with the fact that a) innocent lives have been lost on theirs side and b) a 'right' action has caused tremendous damage to Israel in many 'arenas'. <BR/><BR/>It's something, as you say, that affects us despite the vindication we feel in our actions.<BR/><BR/>AvramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-72342796912071166782009-01-29T13:04:00.000+02:002009-01-29T13:04:00.000+02:00This comment has been removed by the author.Calevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06845000281247083994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-52827586563639294192009-01-29T12:23:00.000+02:002009-01-29T12:23:00.000+02:00Avrami think we need to move away from a type of b...Avram<BR/><BR/>i think we need to move away from a type of binary analysis - if an action is justified then its good; and if its not justified then its bad.<BR/><BR/>What Moshe did was right. I think we should all aim to imitate that type of courage. The Torah looks on it positively. But i think the midrash is pointing out that even if something is right, doesnt mean cant also be accursed, that it affetcs the person who carries it out.<BR/><BR/>And that is an idea that doesnt seem to have been mentioned in discussions over Gaza...Calevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06845000281247083994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-30534038686137693212009-01-29T12:20:00.000+02:002009-01-29T12:20:00.000+02:00Andrewpersonally i dont think that the Amalek comm...Andrew<BR/><BR/>personally i dont think that the Amalek commandment is relevant anymore. I think it can be argued that it referred to a character trait that needs to be destroyed - like cynicism, or attacking the weak, or nihilism.<BR/><BR/>i also think that the Rabbis moved to neutralize the commandment by syaing that because the Assyrian ruler Sancheriv came and mixed up all the peoples, we no longer know who Amalek really is anymore, hence we cant destroy them.<BR/><BR/>but regardless of those two things, i think any discussion on Judaism's view of violence and war cant ignore the Torah text...Calevhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06845000281247083994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-39076691402915655712009-01-29T12:18:00.000+02:002009-01-29T12:18:00.000+02:00it's interesting - but two points1) Not enough is ...it's interesting - but two points<BR/>1) Not enough is given to us as WHY Moshe's actions were viewed wrong by Hashem if that is the reason for him not entering the land.<BR/>2) It is implying, in a way, that we must be wary of self defense, which I think at times is very dangerous.<BR/><BR/>AvramAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15743286.post-31592947910951848772009-01-29T11:46:00.000+02:002009-01-29T11:46:00.000+02:00As an aside, I want to refer to your comment that ...As an aside, I want to refer to your comment that "On the one hand we have the command to destroy another people – the Amalekites."<BR/><BR/>The Torah says that there is a War of God with Amalek not that the Israelites must wage the war. Also there is an obligation to blot out the memory of Amalek. It doesn't say to actually kill them. The Torah is generally pretty clear when it tells the Israelites to kill another people.<BR/><BR/>Maybe the Torah's message about Amalek was something different than we have been led to believe.<BR/><BR/>The difference between Zaycher (memory) and Zecher (males) of Amalek might also be instructive. Note that the Torah says Zaycher. Later traditions added the potetial reading of Zecher.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01341362488340202119noreply@blogger.com